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Torah and science
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Posted by Aryeh Moshe on 2002/01/09 04:03:09 US/Eastern
Aren't there places in the Gemarah and the Torah's commentators where they seem to contradict science? How should a Jew view these opinions that seem scientificly false? (Can you please give examples of these opinions? I think some are that the Rambam describes stars in a false manner. Also the Gemarah, maybe Rashi, has a discussion on if the earth revolves around the sun or vise-versa...)
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| Re: Torah and science
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by Simcha Shtull on 2002/01/09 04:08:00 US/Eastern
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Neither the Bible nor the Talmud are intended to be science books, nor scientific explanations of the universe and its workings, but rather attempts to build a religious/ spiritual worldview and framework. Without minimizing the wisdom of our rabbis and thinkers, we understand that where they do enter the realm of science, they do so with the (limited) knowledge and experience of medieval (or earlier) times.
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| Re: Torah and science
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by yermi on 2002/01/09 08:12:50 US/Eastern
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Hi Aryeh,
Somebody once said, "God spends three hours a day studying the Talmud." It is a man made document and therefore has restrictions, as do the commentaries. So, how about viewing scientifically false opinions as honest attempts to understand the world based on information available at the time?
Our scientific knowledge increases by the day whereas human nature seems to be reasonably constant. Assuming the nature of God is constant too then a scientifically false description of the universe does not necessarily invalidate any spiritual message beneath the words about humans or their relationship with God.
Regards,
Yermi
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| Re: Torah and science
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by Shoshana Michael-Zucker on 2002/02/04 09:35:21 US/Eastern
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A serious discussion of issues of religion and science may be found at http://www.borhatorah.org/index.html
B'ohr HaTorah is an English-language journal for wondering
Jews, scientists, artists, teachers, and students. It examines personal and intellectual concerns through the microscope... and the tested faith and learning of the Torah-observant Jew.
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| Re: Torah and science
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by Yakov Leib HaKohain on 2002/02/26 11:19:17 US/Eastern
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Could you be more specific about WHERE the Talmud and other works of Oral and Written Torah "contradict" science -- giving the full quote or, at very least, the volume and page number? As it stands, you appear to be operating out of an assumption rather than evidence. And the answer, "Well everybody KNOWS that the Talmud contradicts science" just doesnt cut it. It's no better than the argument, "Well, everybody KNOWS all Jews are loud and pushy," which many (quite rightly)would consider a form of prejudice rather than fact.
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Re: Torah and science
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by Yermi on 2002/03/11 15:21:50 US/Eastern
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Here are a couple examples Yakov where there appears to be some difference:
Genesis 1:14 says the stars were created after the earth. Science would say the presence of stars predated the earth (no stars, no nuclear fusion, no basic elements to build the earth and of course no sun to provide the light needed by the grass for photosynthesis).
Scientists tend not to believe in talking donkeys (Numbers 22:30) although talking asses may be another issue :-)
Maimonides in, "Guide for the Perplexed" Part II, chapters 4 to 9 talks about the Aristotlean concept of the heavenly spheres. Let me quote from chapter X:
"The arrangement of the Universe may therefore be assumed to be as follows: there are four spheres, four elements set in motion by them and also four properties which earthly beings derive from them ... "
That is not a widely held view today.
Regards,
Yermi
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